I've got a major problem being told that I have to participate in anything. Especially in a freeform environment where we're supposed to be able to decide whether we want something to happen to our characters or not. Yea, ICC=ICA - I am a VERY big advocate of that - but there's also the issue of consent, which is what I've thought was a big thing for any place I play. I don't like being told that I have to do this or that; it's like being told I have to RP with someone whether I want to or not. I've avoided playing at MU*s and RPGs in general where those are the rules. Not having a choice just really rubs me the wrong way.
It's not that I don't want to participate in the TP - it looks like it could be a lot of fun - but the fact that there is no question whatsoever whether or not I get to decide if I participate or not just really rides on my nerves. Being told that my character is going to be a part of it AND that if I want TP-RP I have to log it...that just doesn't seem very fair to me at all. And I can understand the reasons behind it, I just don't agree with the methods being employed. I also understand that it's being done for the good of the MUCK, to encourage RP and give folks a new hook to play with, but I think it's wrong to enforce something like this.
Given the opportunity to decide for myself whether or not I want to play, I'd probably want to join in, but I'm immediately against anything that says I have to be a part of it, which is basically what it seems like has been implied here. And yea, I could be a sarcastic jerk and say 'well, I'm just not going to log on for a week!' if I am really, really against this, but I don't want it to get to that point.
Just my $0.02. I'm not posting with the intent of causing problems or offending anyone or going against the TP; I think it's really an excellent idea and am looking forward to seeing it go down, I just really have an issue with not being given a choice.
Instead of saying that we absolutely have to participate, can you possibly just offer the opportunity to participate rather than dictating that characters have to? I'm not saying I that I, personally, don't want to play, I'm just saying it'd be nice to have both options open, not just for me but for everyone, rather than being told this is going to be done whether anyone likes it or not.
Post by temperance on Nov 28, 2007 22:04:09 GMT -5
We could, alternatively, give everyone on the game the opportunity to pass/participate on the TP by setting a specific flag on their character, such as @set me=~TP:yes or somesuch. If people consent, their character stands a chance of getting sick. If people don't, they won't be included in the lottery. However, if they opt not to participate in the TP, that also means they don't get to do any of the fun stuff that happens later on (unless, of course, they consent to enter the lottery).
Would you guys be amenable to that?
Last Edit: Nov 28, 2007 22:04:52 GMT -5 by temperance
Sounds interesting, to me mostly because it really does involve everyone and not just those who live within a group, and because I think the program associated with it is exciting.
One question: I understand that the player will be able to see his/her characters' illness status, but will we be able to see OOCly whether other characters are sick, or will it only be evident through RP?
... I'm not going to begin with debating the ethics of requiring people to participate unless they 'opt out' rather than 'opting in' voluntarily in the first place... that's a dead horse which I think is self-evident and will be beaten vigorously throughout the extent of this RP and possibly beyond. A lesson unto itself as it will, and one I can empathize with having been on both sides of the fence of similar issues prior.
That said however, my interest is piqued and I do have some RP-related, and technical questions regarding said plot:
...This quote unto itself brings a couple questions immediately to mind. First one is purely from a user standpoint and the rest I've tried to break down to allow for ease of reading and answering of questions:
It's stated whenever one connects, this indicator will be displayed. Like many people, I tend to either remain logged in for an extended period, or may wish to go and check/verify status on things as I work/RP. As such, is there a command we can use and/or setup as a trigger in order to call up our (current) status on demand?
Also stated therein is a curious statement regarding one's 'current health and symptoms'. From this, can it be properly derived that there will be some form of progression of the disease? If so, will said progression be physiological, psychological, spiritual or some combination therein?
An interesting couple of items were alluded to here, 'rolling' and a segment not included in this particular quote, but referenced later on in the same article... 'lottery'. From this, can we assume that the possibility of contracting said disease is pure chance? The proverbial cast of the classic 1d6 die for example?
Or, barring a purely random choice (or perhaps in conjunction with it) do we have a Patient Zero, or a 'Typhoid Mary' from which the disease originates?
Since these are plot-specific rooms, will there be some level of progression through them?
With only but a week scheduled for this plot, have we an alternative to what will occur if not too many individuals manage to make it through to the goal? This stated, can just one wolf/individual make a difference for all those involved?
Will these rooms remain active after the plot has passed? If so, will they be locked to the participants only or open to the general public? Will they retain any significance in the long haul? Can they be claimed/settled by any group (possibility of forming a new wolf pack has come to mind...) down the road? (I kind of like the idea of a group claiming a 'holy land' for their own and the possibilities of conflict that may arise therein from said action...)
In addition to these questions based directly off of the quotes, several others come immediately to mind which bear asking...
What is the transmission vector of this disease? Airborne? Ingested? Poisoning (IE: landslide exposes common water source to large quantities of lead?) Passed through bodily fluids? Contact? Other?
Is there an incubation period for the affliction?
While from a scheduling standpoint a single set starting date might be convenient, generally it is not too realistic for any infection in a group of geographically separated individuals to be close time-wise in displaying symptoms unless there is a common source, and even then there is usually some variation Dependant upon other factors (age, sex "Yes please!" *gets stoned to death!* XD, present physical condition, metabolism, one's immune system, diet, exposure to similar diseases, etc.). Do you intend to account for such? If so, how?
Can afflicted individuals spread the disease? If so, at what stage of infection? What sort of exposure is required? Is there a formula in place to determine such? (IE: roll 1d20 every 15 (RL) minutes of exposure, adding the # of rolls done so far to the total, and comparing the result to a table/set figure... results of 18 or greater means infection has spread.)
What will occur for those whom catch the disease yet do not find, or do not participate, in the hunt for this 'cure'? It is stated the disease is not (generally) lethal, but then again, we do have to remember the adage 'IC actions = IC consequences' and one could successfully argue that in the event of a particularly virulent bug, the IC consequence for not finding said cure would be death.
Is it possible for the body of those afflicted to develop an immunity to said disease? Can this immunity be passed from mother to child?
What are the probable outcomes once the disease runs it's course? Are they purely negative or is there a possibility of positive results? (Going way out on a limb here, due to the possibility of a spiritual element here, could there be results of certain individuals developing unexpected abilities for instance? IE: fire/ice manipulation? Psychic powers? "There is no spoon!"... ala the old Demi Haze?)
In general, diseases that burn hot and fast tend to burn themselves out relatively quickly due to killing the host (or the host defeating a weaker bug and developing an immunity). e.g. Ebola. Is this TP/disease a one-time event, or is this disease going to become a full-time feature of the game, and one we will be dealing with for the foreseeable future? (I see benefits to both angles personally...)
... I've got /plenty/ more questions to ask, some building off of ones I've got here, but in all honesty... it's 3:13am here and I need to get /some/ sleep tonight. >P This will have to do as enough to chew on in the meantime - I'll check back after work to see if there are any updates and will decide how to proceed from there.
Regards, ~Friti ~Viridian Second, Provisional
Last Edit: Nov 29, 2007 8:33:41 GMT -5 by temperance
"I understand that the player will be able to see his/her characters' illness status, but will we be able to see OOCly whether other characters are sick, or will it only be evident through RP?"
Only through RP. In addition to being MUCKwide, the other goal of this TP is to be played out through purely IC methods. ^^
"As such, is there a command we can use and/or setup as a trigger in order to call up our (current) status on demand?"
"From this, can it be properly derived that there will be some form of progression of the disease? If so, will said progression be physiological, psychological, spiritual or some combination therein?"
To the former question, yes, there will be levels of the disease. And as for the latter, that's something I don't want to answer yet for risk of spoiling anything. ^^ But like I've mentioned previously (at least on the MUCK), you can play the symptoms as mildly or as seriously as you prefer, so long as you're not ignoring them completely (provided you didn't opt out or are not sick, of course).
"From this, can we assume that the possibility of contracting said disease is pure chance?"
There is a 50% chance of contracting the disease with each roll, and we're assuming an airborne/waterborne disease so that it would be able to affect many people (versus something like rabies, which would require contact). There is no known Patient Zero, as it has originated from lands beyond our IC borders.
"Since these are plot-specific rooms, will there be some level of progression through them?"
Yes. The properties will 'unlock' further areas.
"With only but a week scheduled for this plot, have we an alternative to what will occur if not too many individuals manage to make it through to the goal? This stated, can just one wolf/individual make a difference for all those involved?"
In short, yes. I don't want to risk revealing too much information in a detailed response.
"Will these rooms remain active after the plot has passed? If so, will they be locked to the participants only or open to the general public?"
Yes, they will become on-grid rooms. No, they will become public knowledge after the quest has concluded. The suggestion of a third wolf pack has been debated for some time now, but we're not making anything official just yet.
Wow, bunch of questions at the end there. XD I've already answered the transmission question - but as for incubation/variation, yes, Asrohc has set up the program to affect or not affect different types of characters at different times. No one can spread the disease (purposely) - all eligible characters who connects once the TP begins will have a 50% chance of contracting it automatically (once again assuming they don't opt out).
"What will occur for those whom catch the disease yet do not find, or do not participate, in the hunt for this 'cure'?"
My original compromise for having a MUCKwide sickness was to reassure everyone that their character would not be able to die. If a character isn't going to involve themselves in the quest, then they might as well just opt out, but the disease is not lethal and if they want to hole themselves away until someone else does the dirty work for them in finding the cure, I can't force anyone to RP.
"What are the probable outcomes once the disease runs it's course? Are they purely negative or is there a possibility of positive results? (Going way out on a limb here, due to the possibility of a spiritual element here, could there be results of certain individuals developing unexpected abilities for instance? IE: fire/ice manipulation? Psychic powers? "There is no spoon!"... ala the old Demi Haze?)"
No psychic/magic powers. XP I don't want to risk saying too much here, either, so my best advice is to just wait until the plot begins progressing and see what possibilities, spiritual or otherwise, come to mind then. ;)
"In general, diseases that burn hot and fast tend to burn themselves out relatively quickly due to killing the host (or the host defeating a weaker bug and developing an immunity). e.g. Ebola. Is this TP/disease a one-time event, or is this disease going to become a full-time feature of the game, and one we will be dealing with for the foreseeable future? (I see benefits to both angles personally...)"
This particular disease/plot is intended to be a one-time event, unless people end up enjoying the plot immensely and want to see aspects of it used in future TPs (which I hope people will, now that we've gotten the compromise out there ;D).
Whew. If I missed anything, just page me on MUCK.
Last Edit: May 11, 2011 20:04:42 GMT -5 by Curiosity
Now that the TP is in its last couple of days, I'd like to thank everyone who participated - according to the list of who got what clues, we had over 30 characters involved - and that only includes who found clues, not those who RPed as being sick, so the actual count is probably even higher, making for a very good turnout. ^^ Out of those, the quest managed to pull in all sorts of characters, including wolves, cougars, coyotes, foxes, horses, birds, a bighorn sheep, a rattlesnake, and others. All this and 20+ logs for a week-and-a-half-long TP makes me consider this one to be a success. ^.-
I'd also like for those of you who were involved (and even those who weren't) to please take a few moments to give me some feedback on what you thought about the Quest for Salvation TP. What did you enjoy? What could have been improved? What would you like to see in future plots? If you'd like to keep anonymity (or don't want to deal with registering an account to reply), guest posting is welcome.
Thanks in advance!
Last Edit: Dec 22, 2007 20:16:37 GMT -5 by Curiosity
I'm very happy with the way the TP turned out, especially after all the work Asrohc and I put into it. All of you definitely met my expectations in regards to quickly getting a hang on things and allowing the disease to serve as an interesting backdrop to the old 'quest' plot archetype without getting too caught up in the OOC details (after the original opt-out compromise was met).
In retrospect, I wish I had swapped the Sangre Pack TP and the Quest for Salvation TP in regards to timing - the summer would have allowed for more people to be involved and for the TP to extend a little longer, while the Sangre TP didn't need as much time or participation. I felt the Quest TP got both a little rushed and dragged out towards the end, with two groups already making headway to the oasis and more or less waiting for another group to come from the forest with the final clue, which might have been made better with a little more time allotted to the TP (time that wouldn't have interfered with the holidays, too) or additional clues, which would have also required more time. I guess I was expecting smaller splinter groups to form, which would have probably staggered arrival times better, rather than the massive ones that ended up clumping together. XD
But overall, I was very pleased with how everything went, and I want to thank everyone who was involved - without you, this TP wouldn't have been a fraction as epic as it turned out to be (and as I write this, we still haven't even finished the quest, so who knows what awaits us yet!). XD
As being the first TP I've been involved with (on this board). it seems to have gone fairly well from what I saw. I think it was about the right amount of time. If they go too long there could be a loss of interest. The fact that the clues were hidden and had to find them out, was pretty cool. I'm just happy I was around enough to participate in it. If it had been during the summer I"m not sure how much I could have done.
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I really liked it, had some trouble getting my non-predator character in the 'main' action but that was ok too. The whole thing made for great RP. Been on here more this past week than I think I have all together, lol. Next time yea might think about getting other non-wiz's to play a few of the NPCs. Seemed like the Wiz's were just doing so much I felt bad about asking some for a scene.
I don't think it's any secret that I've enjoyed this TP a lot. The only negative point I can think of, you've already touched on regarding the amount of time allotted for it. Even so, things never really felt too rushed.
The story line was excellent. It allowed for a lot of sustained interaction between characters who would have never spent so much time together, otherwise. Absolutely beautiful.
Therdde - The Mouthy Mallard - Staffer Alt
Maul - The Confused Cougaress Skahla - The ADHD Wolf
I totally agree with everyone; the TP itself was absolutely excellent. I know I didn't participate much (between running off to job interviews across the country, trying to close down the lab I work in for the holidays, and trying to spend time with friends that I may not see again, not much time was left for RP). I loved reading the logs, however, and enjoyed the minor participating with Thorne that I had.
Minor TPs are always fun for the few involved, but the global ones that try and get everyone involved are always excellent.
Plot went well, and I enjoyed what I was part of. Though being so near the holidays, it was very hard for me to be able to sign on reliably, and I ended up missing out on the end despite the work I had put into RPing. I got scene locked and couldn't hook back up with the folks I was traveling with. I hope they were able to see the plot out to the end.
Anyways, I thought the TP went over very well. I'm actually suprised how it got so many people involved and how many different species were in it. I was actualy a little shocked when I first saw how many people were sick at first but, hey, it was all the more fun.
I thought that playing as someone who was sick was really fun and a new thing to do, even though I feel that I didn't do a good job RPing that out. I don't think that anything was rushed out and it felt like a good time to end the TP when it did because, personaly, I was a little tired of RPing out being sick all the time.
Still, it was a fun and new experience for me and I hope you guys come up with something fun like that soon. ;D ;D
Kasim- Old Brother of Amranth Haben- wolf wandering back to his family