Amaranth Discussion

[Curiosity]

[Yes, I know this is a long post, but if you are in any way involved or interested in the tribe or cougars in general, please consider taking a few moments to read what has been written and provide your own thoughts on the matter. It is much appreciated. Thank you!]

Meadows has been around for over 4 years now, and occasionally throughout that time discussions have had to be made to determine the future of the groups inhabiting the MUCK, typically among staffers and the leaders of the group in question. These discussions may involve the selection of new leaders, how to breathe life back into a waning group, or even whether or not a particular group is active enough to remain viable on its own. Now, however, the future of the Amaranth is at a crossroads, both ICly and OOCly, and the staff and leaders are turning to all who are involved with the Amaranth -- past, present, and future members -- for advice on which direction the tribe should take.

As it stands now, Chieftain Kein has essentially been running the tribe by himself, with Matron Nayeli having withdrawn into herself to a point where she is no longer a capable leader (OOCly due to being inactive for the past year). Their eldest daughter, Kaya, had left the tribe during her adolescence after having her Chosen status revoked due to her impetuous behavior, but has recently returned as a more emotionally settled adult, with two new cubs of her own. Kein has grown tired and weary from the constant battles he has had to face since his and Nayeli's tumultuous ascent to leadership, and is ready to pass his mantle on to another who will carry on with Paoro's lineage and original intent of creating a peaceful haven atop Snowcrest Mountain.

There have been several proposed ideas for what should happen next with the Amaranth, some of which are as follows:

- The most obvious and traditional choice would be to choose one of the leading pair's cubs, as the tribe is matriarchal and all of its matrons thus far have been of Paoro's bloodline.
-- The most likely candidate here is Kaya, as she is the eldest daughter and was the original Chosen named by Paoro. However, after her falling-out with the tribe as mentioned above, there is some hesitance to allow her to become the next Matron. Along these lines, Kaya is also currently lacking a mate who would become the next Chieftain alongside her.
-- Of Nayeli's other daughters, Aurora is not qualified to to take up such a spiritually-steeped role (and as her player, I do not wish to force her into a role I have played once before already as the original Paoro), Maul is in a similar boat and does not wish to become matron, and Shade is too inactive at this point to be considered.
-- Another possibility that has been OOCly mentioned is for Kein and Nyssa to have a small litter of cubs, one of which is a female who will eventually become the next matron. As Nyssa is a descendant of Paoro (see @family Nyssa), this would still be in line with the original tribe hierarchy; however, this would also mean a slightly longer wait before a leadership change occurred while the new Chosen daughter grows up from cubhood.

- The possibility of a second tribe has been mentioned before -- however, this has been denied due to the fact that cougars are not group-oriented (Paoro's tribe is a rare deviation from the norm), and I do not wish to have them turning into what are essentially 'lion prides', as this is territory well-covered by other MUCKs. However, if the majority of those playing cougars are not satisfied with the opportunities that the Amaranth currently provides, then another potential idea is for the Amaranth tribe to be dismantled through IC means and replaced by a new, different sort of tribe. However, something this drastic would certainly require a lot of thought, effort, and discussion, and the new tribe/clan would need to be unique enough to be differentiated from the original Amaranth, be a sustainable group idea that wouldn't just blow over after the novelty wore off, and have active, qualified leaders dedicated to the new group.

- Another option that has been brought up is for a rogue male to usurp Kein as chieftain, possibly choosing his own matron from the tribe females, and thus potentially breaking Paoro's lineage (at least temporarily); however, this would be a distinct shift from the original intentions and feel of the Amaranth tribe, and I would prefer for this to be one of the last resorts. A potential compromise between this and the 'traditional' idea might be if Kaya was named matron, but, lacking a mate, an unrelated male came into the picture and took over as the new chieftain, whether by friendly means or by force.

In the end, what the other staffers and I (as the original creator of the Amaranth) are primarily concerned with is that, regardless of what is decided on, the plan appeals to the majority of those players involved with the tribe, creates the most entertaining roleplaying opportunities for the future, and overall is the best option for the current playerbase. For instance, I do not wish to destroy the established Amaranth tribe for the sake of creating a new unrelated tribe that ends up having the same issues as before, but neither do I want to desperately hold onto my creation if it's become too stagnant to be salvaged as-is.

None of this will occur overnight, and may not even be put into motion for several weeks, or perhaps even a few months, depending on the end-results of this discussion. Nonetheless, we are seeking thoughts and ideas from anyone who has been, is currently, or will be involved with the tribe (or even just a cougar character) on what the future of Amaranth should entail. Ideally, we will eventually come to a consensus on a plan that a majority of the players involved agree is the best course of action, although if there is a split between two or more primary ideas, the staff will make a decision based on the criteria mentioned before.

If you have opinions, ideas, or any other comments regarding the future of the Amaranth tribe, whether in response to one of the aforementioned plans or to propose something else entirely, please join the discussion and let your voice be heard. Thank you.

[Therdde]

I'll throw in my two cents here real quick:

I have always loved the idea of a Kein/Nyssa cub taking over for all of the complexity and depth it could offer to scenes. To me, it is the ideal solution. The heir, though illegitimate, would be of Paoro's bloodline (which was the whole reason for establishing Nyssa's lineage as we did). It could create plenty of conflict that does not rely on violence or destroy the premise for Amaranth. Even with that sole option, there are plenty of ways to go with it. Kein and Nyssa could stay nearby, or leave the heir behind entirely. She could be raised by her parents, or by no one, or guided by someone (Kaya?) who would help her to hold onto the position until she came of age. Existing Amaranth members could accept her, or silently harbor resentment, or actively voice dissent.

Of course, as I will no longer be the leader of the group here sometime in the future, I am willing to try to work out whatever the majority of players want. This is just the option that holds the most appeal for me.

[Nyssa]

I am, obviously, personally vested in the idea that Kein and Nyssa should have cubs, but I think the question is whether or not one of them is chosen to become the next Matron. Like Kein, I think it could develop not only an interesting character but allow Amaranth to grow along with it.

A friend of mine said, and I'm inclined to agree, that it is characters who drive plots and not the other way around. Rather than try to create some sort of all encompassing story, if we have an idea in mind of where we would like to take Amaranth, our characters will take us in that direction.

That said, my question is what is the ultimate goal for the change? I know that ICly Kein is frustrated and tired and there have been family problems as mentioned above or that existing children either can't or don't want to take up the responsibility (this also comes down to player activity/availability/willingness etc). Are we specifically trying to bring Amaranth back to its original idea, or allow it to evolve a little (still along Paoro's original lines)?

In creating Nyssa and her planned lineage, I had the idea that some of Paoro's family split off and created a clan/tribe/multiple groups of their own, perhaps with slightly different ideas as far as totems go (for Nyssa, it is an elemental guide and not an animal totem) but with the overall same idea of peace that Paoro sought. Nyssa herself is very connected with her guide and the idea that she has been sent from her clan into the world to do... something, similar to Amaranth's totem guide. Minor differences, but ones that could be incorporated into some sort of plot.

For instance, if Kein and Nyssa decide that perhaps one of their cubs should be named Matron, they may stay nearby and raise the cub with a mixture of Amaranth's beliefs and Nyssa's own clan's. Even if they don't stay around, perhaps that said cub can journey back to Amaranth when older and request their rightful place. Again, that would take time.

I'm against any kind of real dramatic, quick-fix, epic storyline plot full of strife and drama. Let's save those for MUCK wide TPs. Perhaps Amaranth does move away from what Paoro had intended, for the short term, with this tumultuous time of harried leadership and lack of direction from totems or guides. Maybe we have small factions within the group, Kaya and her cubs, Aurora and Maul, any other active players (I'm sorry, I don't know who is active and who isn't), trying to decide amongst themselves what to do? Young cougars without their parents, without direct contact with Paoro to know just what it was she was trying to accomplish.

Again, focusing on characters more than actual plot. If we set a common goal, our characters will write the prose for us to read along the way.

-Nyssa

[hahtalekin]

I actually do like the idea of another litter, as what has already been suggested. I'd actually been considering bringing in a female character for the Amaranth, someone who can better be integrated within the tribal spirituality and dynamics. Though I have Toyo/Tantallon he would never, I feel, be well suited to join the Amaranth on a permanent basis. It's not just because he's a male, but his own nature and upbringing is more likely to alienate him in the long run and I'd had more solitary 'wandering sage' ideas for him in the future.

On an overall note, I feel a new heir character will open up a lot more opportunities - as Nyssa mentioned the dual-upbringing gives a great deal of spiritual potential for the character into how they act, a sort of 'reconciliation' for the two branches of Paoro's lines/tribes, plus it's a character that is free of old dramas, connections, and set ideas and gives them reign to grow the character into the role instead of trying to force it with an already established character.

[Cael]

Alright, I know this has already been brought up and dismissed for lineage reasons, but let me throw this out there with a couple of things in mind.

Mythri has discussed coming back with her character. I no longer have Cael as an active character here and do not intend to bring him back. We have had scenes with these two characters developing their relationship where it left off and Mythri does want her character to have cubs. While I know none of that RP has been connected with the muck, I think if she wants to come back and introduce her litter as potential between leadership characters, I don't see a problem.

It would not be Paoro's bloodline (then again, neither would this rouge male's), and it would be at least Amaranth blood, Cael being their father.

It would not be a permanent solution but one that could certainly be worked into the dynamic as a whole. For instant, Kein and Nyssa leave, Nyssa becomes pregnant, has a dream or vision or visitation from Paoro (or her guide) that one of her cubs is to journey back to Amaranth. In the mean time, Mythri returns to tell Kein of his son's death and their impending litter, finds him gone, gives birth to the litter within Amaranth and takes residence there while she raises them.

This in the mean time could really give a push to character development. We have established Amaranth characters with a history to Mythri and her trouble making father, while also developing new characters in the cubs, both Mythri's and Nyssa's, also giving way to more RP as the two sides reunite, maybe in early adolescence? I don't think it either an unrealistic plot or request that the idea continue to be considered, rather than set aside because it is not closley related enough to Paoro's blood.

I'm not saying spoil Amaranth's bloodline. Just open it up as a possibility for really, really interesting RP potential. Let's not guide Amaranth with an invisible hand of fate. Let's set some ideas in motion, create the characters, and let them figure it out.

[Therdde]

If this path is the path we take, here is a potential idea of a very loose timeline. All it does is offer a way things could progress:

Nyssa and Kein don't leave Amaranth immediately because of winter. They have cubs sometime in the spring. One of them, for whatever reason, is named Chosen.

Mythri returns. The news regarding Cael's death is what sends Nayeli, who has been posed as angry that Kein drove Cael away, over the edge, and she demands that Kein leave.

Kein has too much honor to stay there against Nayeli's will, but at that point, he could demand his daughter keep her rightful place, and stay nearby to watch over her.

There are no details, because those should be worked out through RP, but it is one way things could work out and the different plot threads could be woven together. Also, because I'm on my phone, and typing on this thing can be a pain and time-consuming.

[Curiosity]

I very much like this proposed course of events (especially since it doesn't involve the dismantling of Amaranth), and if there's support for this plan from others, then we can go forth from here. As I have done before, a spirit-Paoro scene could be arranged (or some other mystical sign, such as a birthmark or other unique characteristic) to help explain why a cub from one of these other litters would be the Chosen daughter. Of course, most important if we opt to go this route is that at least one of the female cubs in either Nyssa or Mythri's litters is played by someone willing and able to take up the matron role at some point in the future.

[Also, it's not been mentioned specifically in this thread, but Kaya's cub Fern or Aurora's cub Nova might also be possibilities for matron if we're skipping a generation anyway, and as they're already juveniles it would require less of a wait -- although this would still depend on their OOC willingness to be chosen for such a role.]

In the meantime, until the new cub is old enough to be a proper matron (at least adolescence, though there has been an idea tossed around in the past of a 'child queen'), there would need to be at least some sort of 'puppet' leadership, particularly if Kein is ousted from his primary role of chieftain (at least on the frontlines; I imagine he would still be protective of his family's tribe behind the scenes). Would Nayeli remain as a sole matron, or will she step down as well? Would Kaya be granted temporary status as matron (to guide the matron-in-training, as was mentioned before) as a compromise over her revoked title until the new Chosen daughter is old enough to take on the role herself?

[hahtalekin]

It would be an interesting concept to have a child leader, especially is leadership is considered as much a spiritual role as it is a blood role. I can see it being perfectly reasonable that a tribe would look to a child, especially one who might clearly display that her ancestors/spirits have specifically called her out. I can see it being an excellent opportunity to play a character who has to be a leader from the very beginning and has to content with the burden of leadership from a young age.

Of course, it'd be foolish to expect a child to be completely capable of leading. While said Chosen is looked to as leader, it would be reasonable to think she'd have a guide, perhaps her closest female relative and/or most spiritual female, as a teacher and advisor. Not a 'regent' per say, but, someone there to guide the young matron (or perhaps Maiden, until she reaches adulthood) until she can manage the role herself.

In regards to WHO would be the Chosen, is it feasible that one of the existing litters would accept a cub that would have been born with the existing litter but NPC until now? This would only be if no established character wanted to take the role and if wait time if a factor. I know it wouldn't be the best solution, but, if a compromise between the right bloodline and RL timetable is needed, it might be an option.

I suggested before I'd been looking into playing a female character for the purpose of Amaranth and would be willing to step in if none of the established cougar females want the role, though as Ute's leader already, if someone else wishes to step up then I don't want to take two roles if someone else is willing to do so for fairness's sake.

[Cael]

Actually, I think a child leader could be very profitable in the RP department. However, said cub would need to be active and willing to take on that role for the duration of their character (of course, things could evolve differently for them over time, but the whole point of this discussion is where to bring Amaranth in its future). A /Maiden/ would be very interesting, Hahtalekin.

As it is fall, there wouldn't be much of a wait time until both Mythri's and Nyssa's litters would be born. Perhaps, as Therdde suggested, Nyssa and Kein's litter (one, two cubs?) is born, somehow named Chosen and they decide to stay. Maybe a week or two later Mythri arrives with her news that Cael has been killed, and the plot progresses as mentioned above. Then perhaps once the cub character(s) are at mid-juvenile/young adolescence they can take over as Maiden. Between cubhood and this time they can be taught what this means.

It's just a few early morning thoughts, but I think this could work out well.

Also, this could prove very interesting not only for existing Amaranth adults, Kein's current progeny, but also their own litters and what those cubs might feel toward this whole process. There is a lot happening in these 'simple' ideas that can really help take Amaranth into it's next generation.

[braxton]

Frankly, I'd still like a shot at Kaya being Matron. Reading the above doesn't look like it's gonna happen.

I know I'm not entitled to it just because I didn't want to lose Chesmu back then. I'm just not having much in the way of ideas for Kaya to stand up again like she did when she was a much younger cub as Chosen.

Maybe she could be like a "regent" over the Amaranth and a mentor to her half-sister in the hopes she'll finally be able to step down again.

The issue here is it seems like Kaya's reluctant. It could just be because she realizes that might be her role to play. Perhaps some part f her vision quest had spoken to her or will speak to her at some point. Perhaps something protective in Kaya will bloom (She'll have already been a mother for some time.).

That is my best idea: Kaya finding herself holding the position in trust for Kein and Nyssa's Chosen until she really is old enough to lead, all the while teaching her half-sister. Finally to stand down.

My only other idea is a deadline either/or situation for Kaya both ICly and OOCly. She needs a mate, she needs to get the confidence of the tribe. Both also things I could try to get, perhaps until this litter comes. If she doesn't make it, she doesn't make it. Perhaps we could then try my first idea and Kaya, failing to reach her goal could be asked to take a position as trustee of the matronhood.

[Pavane]

So, I don't feel like I have too much pull around the future of Amaranth; I haven't really been involved with it so far. All the ideas I've seen discussed seem pretty interesting.

But... I do have a male cougar, Wiraqu, that I'd love to see get involved. He's currently an adolescent, but he's rather a flirt, so I could see him getting involved as a mate despite the age gap with Kaya, or something eventually developing with him and someone in a new litter, if he's been brought around for some other reason. Maybe both, if Kaya invites him in to try to become Matron, but they never quite settle together.

Not quite sure where to go with this, but tossing it in for consideration. If anyone has any further ideas, lemme know!

[hahtalekin]

It's seem perfectly reasonable and perhaps expected for Kaya to be the teacher of the new matron, if she if not the matron herself. Since she's already been trained (at least to some extend, I assume) she'll be the most suitable to stand in as regent for the 'Maiden' (as said baby-matron appears dubbed). I'm sure there's a better term for regent, I'm just not thinking of one at the moment.

Of course, depending on how long Kein remains, would a male be needed to take up the temporary role of Chieftain until the Maiden would reach adulthood and choose a mate?